There is something in life that really get on my goat up my nose, and that is bank card fees.
There is another, a public holiday surcharge at cafes and restaurants when you visit on a public holiday. Yes, staff are paid higher on public holidays, but it is a known amount and should be part of the business owner's budget forecast and overall general pricing to what is sold to include the extra public holiday costs.
But let me focus on the first, card surcharges. They really took off during the Covid years, when people stopped using cash. The surcharge was generally 1.2% to 1.5%. Translating to now, a $5.00 cup of coffee will cost $5.07. Some business really tried to rip off customers with excessively high fees.
I argued with staff in a cheap Asian bakery in Balaclava, where she wanted to charge me $1.25 for a 90 cent bread roll because I refused to pay, and nor did I have any cash. Five years later, I've never been back, although I have wanted to.
Worse is when you are charged the fee when there isn't a way to avoid paying, like paying cash. You can choose a cafe that doesn't add the card fee, but when booking a concert ticket or a plane flight, you really don't have a choice.
I hate this extra fee. I don't care if they want to charge me $5.10 for my coffee, that includes the fee, but I don't want to see it as a surcharge added after I pay by card. It needs to be the listed price.
I remember being in New York City in 2015, I think, and what the price label or on a menu was not the price you paid. I think two compulsory taxes were added to the bill and there was an opt out environmental tax. I won't even mention tips, necessary because businesses are allowed to not pay a living wage. Tipping is a insidious disease.
Finally in what I expect will be very popular, the Federal government is banning the card fees, as of October.
For that loss of seven cents on my cup of coffee, usurious banks are increasing account keeping fees (I don't pay any), and reducing flyer points, etc etc. That's fine with me.
The price I see on a menu or a booking, or a label, is the price I expect to pay. And only a tip for something out of the ordinary, like if I spill my drink on myself and staff help to clean up. I don't think that is unreasonable.
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I concur Andrew, I’m assuming lots of restaurants that go broke don’t do their sums before starting the business. I was very cross recently on Kings birthday weekend when I was charged an extra 15% public holiday charge for a loaf of bread at Bromleys bread in Cheltenham. Have never seen this before, a loaf of bread for gods sake. What if supermarkets did this!! Marie, Cheltenham
ReplyDeleteIn Australia, Aldi adds a small fee if you choose contactless payment. You can avoid this if paying by card by instead inserting the card and entering a PIN. If I haven't brought cash I always do this. It must actually cost Aldi more because it takes an extra 20 seconds or so of the cashier's time. It's a lazy tax.
DeleteMarie, I think I would asked for the bread to be sliced then refuse it. I assume it is a upmarket bakery but regardless that is not normal. I am sure supermarkets would love to do that.
DeleteMC, I did not know that about Aldi. I will be there tomorrow and test this out. I normally use the self checkouts, so I will check if there is a card charge, and then next time, use the cashier and do as you suggest.
DeleteMany choose not to open because it is costly and you can choose not to go. Most are small businesses . Choice Andrew, choice.
ReplyDeleteAs for bank charges , small businesses do it to survive.
You can pay cash, but then who carries cash.I don’t
Banks on the other hand they need to charge fees so they can pay their executives million dollar salaries…
So Andrew in summary the choice is yours ..cash or card Sir?
You are correct, it is my choice. Small businesses need to set their prices to cover all costs and there is no reason why a card charge should be separated out.
DeleteIt isn't my choice for many things where I am forced to pay by card. Try paying cash for an airline flight.
DeleteI don't think I ever paid a surcharge on anything until that one time I bought a lotto ticket at a certain place I had never bought from before. I didn't pay attention as I tapped in my pin but when I checked the receipt later I found they had a surcharge of $8.95 on it! That's a huge amount and it was too far from home to go back and question it, but I have never been back there again.
ReplyDeleteThis is a slightly off-topic observation, but for what it is worth I have the impression that English people (esp the middle class) are more likely to complain about things they are dissatisfied with than Australians are. There is a special English tone of indignant protest which we lack. Australians generally will just never go back.
DeleteRiver, that seems absurd, and does not pass any test of ethical trading. I would have followed it up with authorities.
DeleteMC, I really don't have an opinion on that, especially as I only know a few middle class English people. I am more Australian inclined and just don't go back. There was an incident earlier this year where I did complain at the time.
DeleteFirst of all, having a goat up your nose sounds incredibly awful. I understand your annoyance completely.
ReplyDeleteGood, Debby.
DeleteAlso I have used only cash since then when buying tickets.
ReplyDeleteWell River, it seems like the card charges will end in October. We shall see.
DeleteSorry. I meant to say that our bank here has closed so many branches that they stopped charging card fees. They really can't penalize you for not using their ATMs if they shut them all down. The surcharge? We make it a point of having cash on hand for just such situations. What I think is shameful is that people 'on the dole' as you phrase it there are issued their benefits on a card, and the card company charges them for every single time that card is used. When I was laid off, I went to the bank and withdrew the full benefit and deposited it in our checking account. The card company is raking in huge money from the very people who can least afford it.
ReplyDeleteDebby, we can visit the bank or the post office to withdraw cash or our own or three other large bank's auto tellers. But ATMs are disappearing at a rapid rate. Fifteen years ago, I had three within less than a five minute walk, placed externally. Now there is one, and it is only available during business hours.
DeleteI hate to see "Service Charge Included" on a food bill. If the service is good I will always give a healthy tip - the amount being what I decide upon. But if the service is poor, I will give nothing extra. You are put in an awkward situation when you ask them to remove the service charge and often you just pay up anyway to avoid a little scene.
ReplyDeleteYP, I would be unhappy with the included service charge if it is an extra charge on top. It is embarrassing people into paying extra and no matter how good the experience was, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth about the business.
DeleteI particularly hate ticket booking fees. They can be substantial. I will go to great lengths to avoid paying them, including choosing not to go at all. They are really a "because they can" impost because with modern ticketing systems the cost of an individual booking must be minimal.
ReplyDeleteThe worst ones are booking fees which are per ticket rather than per booking. I will endure the in-person queue at my local cinema (while people get drinks and snacks) rather than pay this fee.
There's obviously been a bit of a push back against such fees because in Sydney the SSO (Symphony Orchestra) has stopped charging them.
Some years ago, I remember booking directly with theatres as there wasn't an add on fee as charged by booking sites. I remember a big issue once with corkage fees at a restaurant. I think it was corkage per bottle, and the four of us had four bottles, at $8 a bottle, $32. And that was probably 20 years ago.
DeleteHaving worked in a restaurant, and knowing how hectic the work can be, I tip, unless the service is poor.
ReplyDeleteKirk, your system is quite different and yes, tipping is required, sad as that is. Funnily this just popped up as I was reading your comment. Here is a snip, "On Aug. 31, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (GCRTA) celebrated the arrival of its first next-generation railcar. The delivery is part of a $435 million investment to completely replace the agency's aging fleet. ".
DeleteI too hate surcharges and try not to shop where they do have a charge. I would hate to have to tip a waiter, would hate it they should be paid enough money in the first place. Like you the price on the menu or board should be what we pay, no add ons..
ReplyDeleteIf paying by card now Margaret, the pad will at times have a tip amount come up. It is easy to cancel it but I hate that. I tend to not ask for a bill, but after reading about a service charge being included in the bill, I will return to checking the bill.
DeleteYes, Andrew, always check the bill and receipt, it pays to.
DeleteDanes je žal tako, da če nimaš centa, ne moreš plačati niti kave... žal. Želim ti lep dan... objem, Andreja!
ReplyDeleteI do take it for granted that I can afford to buy a cup of coffee. I know not everyone can.
DeleteI probably wouldn't go out on those holidays where I get charged more for the same things I had yesterday.
ReplyDeleteBob, the argument that staff are rewarded with penalty rates on public holidays plays very strongly with people, so there is less objection to the holiday surcharge.
DeleteFor decades in the USA charging a higher price when using a card, vs. paying cash was against the law. Some #(#&#^#% changed the law, and it pops up from time to time. But then we are the country with the added on sales taxes, so the price you see is almost never the price you pay.
ReplyDeleteTP, so although it is allowed, it isn't widespread.
DeleteThe banks must make a killing on the fees they charge for every single use of a card.
ReplyDeleteStrayer, they do, and of course it is cheaper for them than when we used cash. They are not happy about the changes.
DeleteBanks are not our friends, Andrew. They charge for every little thing.
ReplyDeleteNothing more to say, Pat.
DeleteI agree. Costs are high enough without adding unseen extras.
ReplyDeleteJB, its removal is in less than a month, but I won't be gleeful until I see it happen.
DeleteI'm with you on tipping -- insidious! However, being an American, I'm completely used to sales taxes. They're very common all over the states and vary in amount based on local laws. I always expect to pay more than what's on a price tag. (Here in the UK I guess the VAT is usually included in the price...? Funny that I don't know that off the top of my head!)
ReplyDeleteOh, and card fees -- the businesses usually create more ill will than it's worth when they try to pass those fees on to the customer. (Like your Asian bakery experience.)
DeleteSteve, we have similar to VAT, called GST, which is 10%, but the price you see on a product includes all taxes, just not this extra card fee. There exemptions, such as fresh produce, but not processed, medicines, feminine products, education, medical services and maybe books.
DeleteAnd wasn't the GST supposed to remove Stamp Duty so thta more people could afford to buy a house? That didn't happen and stamp duty still exists and my state has the highest rate, just like it has the highest rate for everything else and I wonder why those things cannot be the same across the nation.
DeleteMy long gone friend had trouble with separating out gets my goat from gets under my skin. It usually came out as gets under my goat!
ReplyDeleteBoud, that's a better one than mine.
DeleteI have things that get on my goat, and use the expression of something being up my left nostril - but never together. That would be painful indeed. Perhaps what they need to do is include the price and then offer a cash discount?
ReplyDeleteA few businesses offered cash discounts many years ago; it's a clever idea that has fallen by the wayside.
DeleteJeanie, that's what many tradespeople and some shops already do, and avoid the money going through the books and hence not paying tax on it. But our tax office use very sophisticated methods now to catch that out.
DeleteDarla, it's a good way to avoid paying the correct income tax.
DeleteThe cost of living in the last few years, especially, has skyrocketed. We do not need anything more added to this.
ReplyDeleteIndeed Linda.
DeleteI hear ya on the fees. I sometimes pay by check to avoid them. AND I didn't realize you had to pay extra on public holiday. Shh. I don't want the restaurants over here to get wind off that and get any ideas;)
ReplyDeleteAND You probably already know this but MAP QUEST refused to change Lake Ontario to Lake America and shot up to first place in search maps for lack of a better term. Doing the right thing finally paid off.
Have a grand one.
Sandra, I'd never heard of Map Quest, and I doubt anyone here would know of it either. I've now learnt about it defying #47, and that is great. Here Google Maps shows Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America) but still just Lake Ontario.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand the frustration: consumers should be entitled to know the true price upfront, without unexpected card surcharges or compulsory add-ons, so that the amount displayed on a menu, ticket, or price tag is the amount they can reasonably expect to pay.
ReplyDelete