- If you hate the rain and prefer an arid climate.
- If you need wide, open spaces and the knowledge that there isn't another human for a hundred miles.
- If you're unwilling to say sorry when someone else bumps into you.
Number 3 happens in Australia too, at least among we Boomers and Gen X. Maybe all generations. While someone might come crashing out a shop door into you, you will both apologise to each other. If you try to enter a lift as some is exiting, even though the person existing has right of way, you will both apologise to each other.
Speaking of lifts, I can't remember if I mentioned last year when we were staying in a hotel in Chesterfield, England, I think I committed a grave faux pas.
I was travelling to the hotel's ground floor by lift. I didn't expect there to be anyone going up when I reached the ground floor. As the lift arrived at ground, a man tried to step into the lift and then correct lift etiquette prevailed and he stepped back to let me out. Yeah man, that is how we do it in Australia too.
Yet he said, 'You're welcome', in a passive aggressive manner to me. I found nothing to thank him for but I should have said thanks. It was a simple lift transaction, yet I got English super politeness very wrong.
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Ha, ha. That's funny. I wish I got paid by the number of "Sorry"s and "Thank you"s I say every day.
ReplyDeleteYes Jay Cee. It is used frequently and widely everywhere on your isles. (YP is cross about me saying UK)
DeleteI hadn't thought of it as etiquette but you are right. And there is a lot of sorry and thank yous as we play dodge 'em in supermarket aisles too.
ReplyDeleteEC, yes in so many areas, a person leaving has priority over someone entering. I hasten to add kiddies, this does not apply to roads.
DeleteWe're beginning to lack in our etiquette. I could stand for hours holding a door open while people stormed through and never get even a glance, let alone a thank you.
ReplyDeleteJB, you don't by chance look like someone whose job it is to hold open doors? It is much more likely a sole person will thank you rather than a stream of people.
DeleteI'm not a fan of gray, rainy days but neither am I fan of six months of winter. I do like wide open spaces but whenever I visited my aunts and cousins in England, they lived in the country which was so beautiful.
ReplyDeletePixie, do you consider their houses were a bit small and cramped?
DeleteMy one cousin's house was small but otherwise the houses were fine.
DeleteI just saw a latest wealth video saying that to succeed in business and all requires going to cities like London
ReplyDeleteRoentare, I suppose any further wealth advice from you will attract a fee!
DeleteI'd have said, Well, thank you then.
ReplyDeleteBob, no doubt with a wink.
DeleteThat guy seems like a jerk. I think you did the right thing by not replying.
ReplyDeleteWe are so blessed here. While drivers can often be rude and reckless, face to face interactions are often superb. My smiling and sharing a kind word with strangers is a gesture often returned. Many folks hold doors open for others and even offer help if deemed needed (I've been on both ends).
Just this morning at our international market I told a very tall Jamaican man that I liked his tie-dyed shirt adorned with a mushroom; he thanked me, turned around, and showed off the back's rocket propelled 'shroom trio. Cool, huh?
It's funny to recall my mother lamenting my young self's somber facial expressions. But adolescence is another thing altogether, especially when you despise most of your classmates. Sometimes, I don't regret getting older. I'm sorry to have rambled so long. lol Best wishes and ongoing healing upon your heart.
Darla, maybe I would have normally smiled or nodded. I think I was unhappy with the very old and slow lift.
DeleteI've heard about this politeness in the US but I've only visited NYC and that is not famous for being polite. Mind you, a couple of strangers at different times did offer us clearly puzzled tourists advice. Who would have thought Brooklyn Subway Station was arranged like this, +
I've never been to NYC despite a desire to do so. Born, raised, and living in the Midwestern state of Ohio I have only visited a few other parts of this nation. San Francisco in 1988 and Alaska in 1999 were favorites and North Carolina's eastern coast is my top pick for repeated trips. If you ever revisit anywhere near here I'd enjoy meeting you!
DeleteWhat's this shit about NOT moving to "the UK"? And what is "the UK" anyway? Nobody ever used that term when I was a boy - it's a modern affectation in my opinion and so I prefer to stick to "Great Britain". Let's list three reasons for NOT moving to Australia and see how you like it Andrew.
ReplyDelete1: deadly snakes 2: deadly spiders 3: not enough rain, I could go on....
DeleteYP, is your face going blue at the lack of oxygen from your fury? Are you calling me affected? How very dare you. I don't want to play with you anymore. I'm taking my bat and ball and going home. So there! That'll learn you.
DeleteI'll go on with another three, River. Sharks, drop bears and spitfire caterpillars.
Delete4th reason not to move to the UK: yorkshire!
DeleteTouche, Kylie.
DeleteGRRRR! GNASH! GNASH! TALLY-HO! EAT THE AUSSIES!
DeleteOh no! We have awakened the bear!
DeleteYesterday I was in a cake shop with a long counter but no queue. Whenever a salesperson asked a customer what cakes they would like, the customer always asked those waiting on either side if they had been next. Brief but thankfully polite.
ReplyDeleteHels, I 've experienced that many times. It can be hard to know if someone is waiting to order or waiting for the order to be fulfilled.
DeleteD, the man with whom I live, who is of Chinese background, still treasures a shop-door interaction in 2003 at the very superior cheese shop in Jermyn St (Paxton & Whitfield) with an extremely posh gent who said to him: "I do beg your pardon" (with a particular and conspicuously genteel emphasis on "do" which capitalisation would overstate because it would look like shouting) .
ReplyDeleteI don't like to spoil it for him by suggesting that quite possibly it was that passive-aggressive thing or that D was the one from whom an apology was implicitly being sought. (He may well have reciprocated anyway. Too long ago now to check.)
As for the three reasons, YP is too sensitive. Living in Sydney I would definitely say "winter" - which is basically the weather but not only the rain, also the cold and the short days. (We are having a cold spell at present but that still means Celsius minimum 8, maximum 14; shortest day 7am, 4.53pm.)
Class system might also figure, though I don't fool myself that that is absent here, just different.
Other negative for me about the UK, or even GB (who wants to live in Northern Ireland?) would be the politics so far as it led to Brexit. Talk about an own goal.
MC, I wonder if the gent would have said the same to you, a white person? Ray actually took notice of me when I said that he should not criticise those of another race or gender unless he would be prepared to do the same to an older white male. I do draw a boundary at pushing in but that is because it is mainly older Asian people who do that, especially on public transport.
DeleteThe Geordies have a good attitude to the class system. It doesn't exist for them and if you are posh, fuck off. Mind you, they do have a very subtle class system within.
I am sure if the Brexit vote was retaken now, it would be a very different result. Wouldn't it?
I'm sad to say there seems to be a lack of manners around these days. One of my pet hates is travelling into London on the busy commuter trains and people thinking it isn't necessary to say excuse me or thank you as they squeeze past you to get off the train.
ReplyDeleteFun60, that is something I always practice, and mostly other people do too. But it is like many other areas, it is about numbers. How many times can you say it when pushing your way off a train? I did notice Londoners are less likely to offer an older person a seat though.
DeleteI have been remiss with my sorrys and thank yous lately, the cold has made me too grumpy and my cat isn't helping by wanting to sleep in front of the keyboard with her face buried in the crook of my elbow for hours at a time so I can't get anything else done.
ReplyDeleteReasons for NOT moving to the UK, or Great Britain 1: their cold and grey season is too long, 2: their pebbley beaches, 3: ?
LOL re the beaches. When I was about 5 I lived for a year in England. When we went to Brighton, I could not believe that the sandless pebbly shore could possibly be a beach.
DeleteOther memory which stuck was all the "keep off the grass" signs, doubtless motivated by the difficulty in keeping a lawn going through those winters. We children had never seen one before.
They are both valid reasons River. I think bad weather does make us a bit grumpy.
DeleteMC, yes a beach needs sand, not small, smooth rocks.
DeleteI remember seeing many 'Keep off the grass' signs in Paris, and when I was very young, I remember seeing them in Melbourne.
I'm so self effacing with regard to these British quirks of behaviour - I actually found myself apologising for holding a shop door open for someone the other day......I really need to get a grip ......
ReplyDeleteAlison in Wales x
Alison, you made laugh. Thank you. Your job is done.
DeleteAlways good to be polite, but some people are not polite back.
ReplyDeleteNo Margaret, some are not polite back, but that won't stop polite people being polite.
DeleteNot doors or even GB related but I’ve been known to toss a snarky Thank You or You’re welcome after cars sailing past me by without the customary hand lift of acknowledgment - when I have stopped behind an obstacle to let them drive by, rather than me move onto their side of the road. Gets my goat every time!
ReplyDeleteCathy, the exit from our carpark lead to a two way lane with loading zone parking on one side, turning it into a one lane, lane. So if there are parked vehicles in that one lane, it is up to those who want to go in the direction of the parked vehicles to give way. However, most people do so in a practical manner. I do at times raise my hand in thanks to someone who pulls over, even though I have right of way but not always, and I don't know what triggers that. Window tinting is a bit of a factor too. If you can't see the person, perhaps there is less need to offer thanks.
DeleteI have never understood the passive aggressive 'you're welcome!' To me, it is just mean, someone trying to make someone feel badly. For someone who seems to expect good manners from others, he's not very mannerly himself.
ReplyDeleteDebby, that is quite true about his manners. I felt bad afterwards.
DeleteMy point is you shouldn't. Sometimes people are distracted or deep in thought...it would not have cost mr.manners a dime to extend grace instead of snark.
DeleteI think he was having a bad day (or was simply a pompous ass.)
ReplyDeleteTP, maybe we were both having a bad day.
DeleteI find it's the younger ones that are really quite rude in the sense of the please and thank yous etc. Even in things like when a lost cell phone or purse is found, I was truly shocked when my granddaughter didn't offer a token to an clerk who had found her wallet with all her cards, etc. in it. Just a quick oh thanks. I and my daughter would have offered a monetary token of appreciation. G got very defensive and said honest shouldn't be rewarded. The disagreement continues to this day. And PS G earns more than all of us put together.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think?
XO
WWW
I agree with you up to a point. I had to retrieve something I'd lost from the office in a small shopping centre. It wasn't from the person who handed it in, but just centre management, so nothing for the person who handed it over. If I knew who handed it in, yes I would have given them something. Most people decline anyway.
DeleteI also don't believe a monetary token is appropriate when items are returned by staff. Thank you is sufficient.
DeleteI don't think I can generalise along things like generational divides, but I have noticed some things since my amputation, use of a prosthetic in the last year. 1. People are more likely to apologise etc if you have a wheelchair or a crutch. 2. People on public transport hardly ever look up from their mobile phones, even when they're seated in disability seats, to see if someone getting on might need them. They generally wait to see if anyone else offers first. And that's usually after I've asked people to stand up, so I can sit down. 3. Because people often walk along using their mobile phones, they hardly ever look up to notice people walking towards them who may not be able to move around them. 4. I've had one person actually physically push me out of the way, because she was more concerned meeting her friends than looking at the person with a missing half-leg. I thought about falling over and creating a scene, but I just swore at her. 5. Avoid Newtown on a Saturday night, and anywhere people are drunk. And 6. I had someone almost knock me over last Saturday night, her friends saw my situation and apologised, but she was in shock at what nearly happened.
ReplyDeleteJames, I am discovering a number of similar issues as I age but clearly I am not as affected as you might be. It is unfortunate about people staring at their phones but that is not going to change. I remember us getting on a busy train in Dubai and four young, I assume Bangladeshi workers, guys jumped out of their seats to offer them to us.
DeleteJames, as much as I love Newtown, it's a tricky place to walk around
DeleteIn America (where saying "sorry" sometimes seems purely optional these days) I would still apologize to someone if I bumped into them on a sidewalk or coming out of a shop. But even before I moved to England I had a somewhat English approach to apologies.
ReplyDeleteSteve, that's an interesting take. The English approach to indicating disapproval of manners can be quite subtle I think.
DeleteI like to role reverse for fun and hold open doors for men, especially younger harried men. Often they break into a big smile. As for the rude lift man, of course you were not travelling up from the basement being already in the lift, so anyone with a brain might realize it was your destination and they should allow you out with a smile before boarding. Unless the assumption was the lift travelled you down before up, answering first his call for a ride. Oh well, big deal, it was a simple lift ride and nobody should get bent out of shape over ridiculousness. Lifts, elevators they have minds of their own and may behave badly as a machine, going up first or down first, instead of following their programmed little chip minds.
ReplyDeleteOften I find it's older people who are more likely than younger people to get up and offer me a seat. As someone with a disability, I always look around to see if someone else needs a seat more, and have sometimes been the only one to offer their seat to someone else.
DeleteThat's funny about holding a door open Strayer. It was a simple lift ride, me going down to ground and him wanting to go up. After the last life renovation here, our lifts are now quite smart but still do the occasional thing I don't understand.
DeleteYo estoy contenta, con el lugar en que vivo. Aunque ahora de verano, hace demasiada calor. Procuro estar en casa, el mayor tiempo posible y salgo, temprano de casa, cuando la temperatura, no está excesivamente alta.
ReplyDeletePretty much as I do when it is really hot outside. At least air con is widespread in your country.
DeleteI tend to wave thanks to people when I am driving and hope maybe they will pass it on to the next driver so that we can all calm down a bit.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was Canadians who were known to say Sorry to everyone, Andrew.
Pat, I guess this sorry business comes from our British ancestry.
DeleteGood post, Andrew. We were in the grocery store and motioned a man to go in front of us that only had a couple of items. His response was, "This will save me time," but he didn't bother to say thank you.
ReplyDeleteSandra sandracox.blogspot.com
Sandra, at least he did acknowledge your favour, even if not a direct thanks.
DeleteTrue. And that sounds picky, doesn't it? It wasn't a big deal. But it was weird. He wouldn't make eye contact and once he was in front of us didn't acknowledge us in anyway, not even a nod. It was like there was an invisible wall up. But if that's the worst I've got to complain about in human behavior, I'm pretty darn lucky:) Have a great one.
DeleteI read something on passive aggressive is outdated.
ReplyDeleteThe word maybe Dora, but I don't think the act is.
DeleteCourtesy is a gift we give one another.
ReplyDeleteNicely said Cloudia.
DeleteYour anecdote about the lift incident in Chesterfield highlights the nuances of British politeness. In the UK, small interactions, like stepping aside in a lift, are often accompanied by polite expressions, even if it seems like a minor courtesy. Understanding and adapting to these social norms can help ease the transition and avoid misunderstandings.
ReplyDeletewww.melodyjacob.com
Melody, indeed, nuances I assuredly got wrong.
Delete