I understand the passion from people who have lived through terrible regimes to pull down and smash statues. I can understand how black people want to remove statues of their oppressors of the past. I think there may be some statues in my own city that could now be removed.
The new white race to inhabit Australia took over Aboriginal land and treated the indigenous appalling. It stole their rights to hunt in their traditional lands. It stole their half caste children to be housed in Christian religious missions. A group of hundreds were driven off a South Australian cliff to their deaths onto the rocks and rough seas of the Great Australian Bight. In my own city they were given poisoned flour to make their damper bread.
Does recognising the wrongs of our past make us Woke? It seems we Woke are judged thus.
It is ironic that the mission education for the stolen children was so good that they went on to be eloquent speakers to defend the rights of their people.
But the statues are part of our history and I don't like seeing history destroyed. Slave traders are also part of history.
Hungary seems to have the right idea. A graveyard of removed statues. They can still be seen. They are part of the country's history. They could have been destroyed, but no, they are in a graveyard and you can still see them.
Isn't that a good idea for how to deal with fallen heroes?
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20221214-memento-park-budapests-graveyard-for-communist-statues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park
Getty Images: Fallen Russian president. I wouldn't mind seeing a more modern version of a fallen Russian president.
Later edit: YP is a smart enough bloke, mostly. Here is his take on woke written early in 2021
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It seems I am also woke. And yes, I like the idea of a graveyard for removed statues. And would happily put Russia's current president there.
ReplyDeleteEC, I have no doubt Putin statues will be in such a graveyard, but just maybe not in our lifetimes.
DeleteReligion cause a lot of trouble in world. I been called libtard.
ReplyDeleteCoffee is on and stay safe.
Dora,I so agree with you. God and Christ save us from religion.
DeleteMost leaders have narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies with autistic spectrum traits. They set the rules and break the rules too. So whatever they do or did will be history. Just let history be history. My 5 cents.
ReplyDeleteRoentare, perhaps most 'successful' leaders have such tendencies. It is history but now I doubting myself about a graveyard of history.
DeleteI don’t believe in the woke nonsense and to apply it to yourself is hilarious Andrew where is your Insta link, where can I see you flashing your protest signage or your naked body… or your latest pics of you lying on a beach in southern Spain?
ReplyDeleteWaterloo bay Elliston was the site of the massacre . Beautiful rugged cliffs . When I was working I used to visit the local school often as part of my work. A terrific school honouring Indigenous people in many ways through education . We all need that learning and understanding
Those that consider themselves woke are generally self serving fools . It’s not talking but doing that helps unite people .
As for a graveyard of statues. That would serve no purpose but to make it another Disneyland for tourists , just like the Nazi massacre sites in Germany have become
I am proud to be woke but I am not a self-serving fool. I think you should investigate the term "woke" a little more Anonymous. You appear to have just gone along with the fairly recent conservative misappropriation of the word.
DeleteI think I've looked up the definition of Woke and seems to fit most caring people in that we recognise the wrongs of the past.
DeleteWhen I was younger I did my share of protesting on the street, the last time when we took the then maybe 10 year old Hippie niece and marched for workers rights. I've done footwork for both the Labor Party and latterly the Greens. I was an active member of Friends of the ABC and went to meetings. Don't tell me that I haven't done my bit in life, even if I am only down now to sending emails to our local council about rubbish bins.
I didn't know about Nazi sites in Germany becoming circuses and that is not the solemnity I imagined.
I am a little curious about you. You are clearly well educated, caring and clever but why are you so aggressive towards me? No matter. I've had worse.
Thanks YP. As far as I can see, the description of Woke is a rather simple one.
DeleteFurther Anon, I have a very low tolerance of anyone making negative comments to other commenters at my blog. I am fair game. Commenters are not.
DeleteFirst I thought it is à good idea à graveyard for old statues, but then I read the comment of the anonymes and he is right. I visited Auschwitz and was disgusted à Disneyland of horror with souvenir shops à café etc à money making amusement place belonging not to Poland but to Israël ! Gattina
ReplyDeleteGattina, Anon could be male or female. No one wants memorial graveyards to be as you describe Auschwitz. They don't have to be like that.
DeleteWe have the same sort of debates going on in the US as Confederate statues are being removed. They are being sent to confederate cemeteries, historical museums, with some being taken to private residences. In the end, an interesting interpretation of why the statues were erected to begin with can be read here: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544266880/confederate-statues-were-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future
ReplyDeleteThe timeline of building these statues is enough to convince me that they should come down.
Don't we know about that Debby. Your detail is very informative and why would the removed statues be destroyed? Come down, yes but moved to a public space.
DeleteWithout the constant reminder of our past we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes into the future. We don't need to revere the statues or what they represent but we do need reminders of our ancestors' errors of ways. History happened and there is too much of a tendency to rewrite it and obliterate it.
ReplyDeleteWhen writing about such matters Caro, in the back of my mind is always former PM Howard's attempt to cleanse Australia's history by a focus on the positives of white Australia's history without recognition of the original people and the bad impact white people had on this land mass we love and call home.
DeleteYes please, let the modern Russian president fall. Hard. I don't think statues should be destroyed, they could have added signage saying what they did and why they are being moved as they are all moved to a graveyard somewhere. Or just leave them where they are and add the signage. If all "evidence" is removed, future generations won't know why our world is so troubled, they won't have anything to learn from.
ReplyDeleteI like your thought processes River. Today when thinking about the comments on this post, perhaps just a QR code at statues to tell the real story in a very brief way.
DeleteYes! QR codes to access the history. Great idea. Send that to your MPs.
DeleteThe statues are part of history, I'm not in favour of them being moved or destroyed. If people of any races don't like them, they just have to get over it as I have had to get over what the authorities, free settlers and convicts did to out natives.
ReplyDeleteMargaret, it is not just about race but other matters too. Leaving the statues up does seem to what is happening here and who would want to see a statue of Captain Cook removed. It is an open matter to me.
DeleteWow, I love that idea. Yeah, none of us here now of any origin had any part in all that went on before. I don't think we should blame ourselves or feel entitled due to horrors of the distant past. Maybe that's naive.
ReplyDeleteNot naive Strayer. I am just so against truthful history being forgotten or santitised. Younger people need to know and be educated about what happened in the past without 'white'washing.
DeleteIt is impossible to obliterate history and foolish to try. All nations have harmed others - there are none that are lily-white. Read history, understand it in the context of its time and learn from it so that past mistakes are not repeated. Putting things away out of sight solves nothing.
ReplyDeleteJB, you are quite right. So much money has been spent on the betterment of our indigenous, with good will but sadly misspent and still is. Even the abduction of half castes in 20th century was done with good intentions. It is history and so important to be remembered.
DeleteIt is a question every community has to deal with. Have a look at https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-16/william-crowther-statue-to-be-removed/101334976, re a less than sympathetic doctor in Tasmania. His statue WAS eventually removed.
ReplyDeleteHels, interesting and I had not heard of that, but I should have. I hope the statue is stored somewhere.
DeleteYes - I wouldn't mind seeing a statue of Putin on a pig farm with his wax face in the shit. By the way, I am proud to be woke. To me it is a positive term about caring and rightfulness. "Woke" is simply about being awake to injustice. We should wrestle the word back from conservative detractors who have oddly adopted "woke" as a term of abuse.
ReplyDeleteYP, your definition of Woke is mine. Those who abuse us as being Woke don't really think or understand. This nigger slave trader made America into the rich country it now is? C'mon, think about it. I think their IQ levels must be quite low and their social sympathy even lower.
DeleteI reflected on the term "woke" back in 2021. Go here:-
Deletehttps://beefgravy.blogspot.com/2021/02/woke.html
Thanks YP. I will edit the post to include your post. I am not sure I like this part though. Do Wolk really point fingers? I try to not be holier than thou and I don't think I am. "Those who are "woke" are likely to point fingers at others with a holier-than-thou attitude as they live their smug ethical lives in comfortable homes."
DeleteI am not living a smug ethical life. Those who throw the word "woke" around as an insult are almost exclusively white, conservative, middle class westerners - very common in the "Make America Great Again" Trumpist cult.
DeleteI've been to Memento Park! I found it fascinating. And I agree that it's better to house controversial statues somewhere, as they are indeed part of our history. But they should only be in a place where people who want to see them can go for that purpose. They shouldn't be inflicted on people for whom they represent pain.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I think along your lines. Symbols can be terribly powerful constant reminders and reinforcers.
DeleteThe History: It is what It is. People can learn the good, and must forbiden the bad, perhaps. Today we Life in this days. And we can do only a good present for everybody if we can do It.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment.
DeleteI think I am woke. I agree with YP above.
ReplyDeleteI also like the idea of a graveyard for those statues.
Jackie, there would be many statues of questionable people but those of quite evil people should be immediately removed. Thanks.
DeleteThat's a great way to keep our history without shoving sorrow in folks' faces! Humans have been doing awful things to one another since the first hominid picked up a rock. ~shakes head~ I'm so thankful to live peacefully when and where I do in this war and hate torn world. Best wishes!
ReplyDeleteThat is quite true Darla, and we are still doing it, even if us not doing so directly.
Delete