Remember my post about the Hazara Moslem refugees? It was sad to realise how they have suffered around the world. I am sure many of you expressed sympathy for their plight.
Then you read this about Hazara in Victoria's own town of Shepparton. There wasn't too much mother love coming from Jan.
I don't want this crap in my Australia.
The court was told on Tuesday this was not the first time Jan had forced Haidari into marriage.
When she was aged 15, her mother forced her to marry a different man, which ended in divorce.
After the divorce, Haidari was considered as “bewa” by the Hazara community in Shepparton, meaning she had lost her value.
“That brought a level of shame both to Ms Haidari and the family,” Renton said.
“[Jan] was motivated at least in part to restore that reputation.”
Jan held a position of trust in Haidari’s life as her only living parent, and the offending represented a “significant breach” of that, he said.
However, Renton accepted Jan could not have known Halimi was going to murder her daughter.
“It’s a tragic case, no one anticipated the outcome,” he said. “All the evidence was that he was being promoted as ‘a good boy’; sadly, he wasn’t.”
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Sadly too many 'good boys' murder or damage their wives, across multiple cultures.
ReplyDeleteEC, we know the stats and you must hear terrible things.
DeleteSo many women are murdered by their partners, in many cultures. Including Australia. Domestic violence is there, too. I know women who've had to be protected from Australian husbands. One had to leave the country. This story is tragic, but not an especially Moslem event.
ReplyDeleteBoud, while I am not sure of how many women are killed or suffer in Australia by domestic violence compared to other countries, our statistics are shocking. Not a Moslem thing, but a cultural thing, illegal in Australia.
DeleteYou don't really really know someone.
ReplyDeleteRoentare, just giving your daughter to someone is so wrong. Let your child fall in love.
DeleteI have to say we don't have any Muslim here. If so there in the closet.
ReplyDeleteDora, yes I do think it is unlikely you would have Moslems in your community.
DeleteDoesn't sound like her life had much joy in it, does it? So sad.
ReplyDeleteSandra sandracox.blogspot.com
Sandra, not at all and it all happened when she was so young.
DeleteIf they're being mistreated as a group, I can still feel sympathy and at the same time feel sympathy for what happened to this young woman.
ReplyDeleteKirk, yes of course. Australia is a country of refuge for them, but they need to respect our culture and especially our laws.
DeleteI mean, I understand how conflicting all this is. It's hardly lost on me that not just misogyny but also a strain of homophobia is common among at least some Muslims. Freedom of religion should be A human right, but not THE human right. Freedom from murder should be the human right that supersedes all others.
DeleteI hope they don't take the focus off the murderer as so many of these cases do, making allowances, blaming third parties, etc. I am sick of reading of these "good men" pillars of the community and the most repugnant of all "she must have provoked him." No wonder women and girls don't feel safe. Anywhere. Femicide is a global issue.
ReplyDeleteXO
WWW
That's a good point WWW. As in an earlier comment, I don't know how our stats for femicide compare to others, but our local figures are shocking to me.
DeleteDefinitely not the sort of people we want here. But what do we do when they don't show their true colours until they are settled within a community? It's harder to deport them by that stage, though that should happen. And what about the "good boy" murderer? Will he be sufficiently punished with deportation?
ReplyDeleteThe "good boy" was given life which apparently means at least 19 years. The legal theory is that deportation (if it occurs) is a consequence rather than a punishment. You don't get less time in gaol because you are likely to be deported at the end of it all.
DeleteRiver, I think Marcellous has answered your thoughts quite well.
DeleteThere are good and bad in every group and every culture experiences family violence. I wonder if the statistics are higher in Muslim groups?
ReplyDeleteFrankly, I'm sick to death of every fragile ego that thinks murdering or denigrating a person is a suitable response to any perceived slight
Kylie, violence against women by male partners I think would be similar in all cultures. I know, and perhaps you do too, of a woman who has been subjected to some kind of male abuse.
DeleteI was one. Never physical abuse but every other kind and because he never hit me, it took me a very longtime to realise what it was
DeleteIt certainly is complicated. As your source story says, the mother herself had had an arranged marriage. There was $15k in play paid or to be paid by the groom which looks more like a bride price than a dowry (as the story describes it).
ReplyDeleteIn another story I saw Renton (the prosecutor) is quoted as telling the court:
"“What did happen (the murder) is almost exactly why parliament says these marriages can’t happen.”
"Almost exactly"?
A point well made MC, 'almost'. It was.,
DeleteNot sure if we were making the same point, Andrew.
Delete"Almost exactly" surely means "not exactly." A bit like when people say "in effect X" which often when examined means almost and maybe but you can't actually prove X.
Anyway, just dump this bit from the Guardian's report on the sentencing today:
"Those convicted of forced marriage, a form of modern slavery, face a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment.
In a statement released before Jan’s sentencing, the federal attorney general, Mark Dreyfus, on Monday said forced marriage “is the most reported slavery-like offence” to the AFP.
The AFP said they received 90 reports of forced marriage in 2022-23 alone.
“The Australian government is working with state and territory governments to tackle the issue of forced marriage, including by exploring enhanced civil protections and remedies for those affected,” Dreyfus said, as he announced a public consultation process on potential reforms.
“Everyone in Australia should be free to choose if, who and when they marry.”
[end quote]
I am twitching against the characterisation of forced marriage as "a form of modern slavery." It sort of is, but it all depends on the quality of the marriage. Arguably (another "in effect" word!) many marriages are a form of slavery.
Personally I feel sorry for the mother. It is also hard to see how deportation could seriously be contemplated.
I also wonder about exactly how this offence can really be proved. (That's not to say juries won't convict, though I expect it will be more likely if there is a tragic sequel as here - even though that is not an element of the offence.) There's going to be a big grey area of pressure on reluctant brides. Criminalisation is a very blunt tool.
I think we are making the same point. It was exactly the point, not almost exactly.
DeleteI do feel empathy for the mother, but for what she has received with the privilege of living in a country with strong human rights, she must respect the laws and customs.
I've not thought of forced marriage as slavery. I think combining those concepts muddies waters.
God help the judge who has to decide between encouraged marriage and forced marriage. Will the bride speak out, as I can only see that as being how a judgement can be made. She may then be estranged from her family and of course lose her mother, along with being seen as a trouble maker. It would be a brave very young woman who could do this.
Such a sad tale for the bride, so young.
ReplyDeleteI know it's their 'tradition' but please not in Australia as it's not our 'tradition'.
Margaret, we welcome immigrants and their culture, but not those that are inhuman, abusive and illegal.
DeleteMen damage their wives and daughters all over the world, it seems. There is a difference however. Some men are 'doing God's work', knifing their women to death in honour killings. Australian men seem to kill their wives because of uncontrolled temper and/or alcohol. Probably much of a muchness for the victims :(
ReplyDeleteHels, yes, much of a muchness. You may be aware of three days of protests in Australia about femicide.
DeleteIt's a tragedy wherever it happens, in whatever culture. Powerless people are forced into awful circumstances.
ReplyDeleteJB, in some countries, I would understand powerless circumstances, but not in my country and not in yours.
DeletePeople escape an untenable situation and are welcomed into our freedom. Then too many of them want to oppose upon all of us what they wished to escape. We must be vigilant. Thank you, Andrew
ReplyDeleteNicely said Cloudia.
DeleteSo many women are murdered by the men wanting to control their lives. Here its usually boyfriends or husbands. Its really escalated here it seems like. I don't understand why some men feel women are their possessions.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same here Strayer with it seems ever increasing numbers no matter what is thrown at the problem.
Delete