I am amazed at how such places as restaurants don't bother about getting their English correct. They could pull in a poorly educated white kid off the street and pay them $20 to correct their English spelling, grammar and style for their websites and signage. Ok, maybe not poorly educated, but it is a rather basic matter for native speakers of English. It's about words.
A couple of years ago I offered to correct the English in the website of our Malaysian friend Danny. I did so by email. I am not sure if he took notice. He doesn't maintain the website himself. I just took a look and he has a new website, very slick and a skim read indicates the English is fine. https://www.dankoff.com.my/ It's about words.
It was sad to hear of the death of Dr Lowitja O'Donoghue, AC, CBE, DSG, at the age of 91. She was one of the stolen generation. I don't know the right words but in the past we would say she was a half caste, and so she was removed from her family and brought up by missionaries at a very young age. If the parents didn't hand the children over, the law would hear about it and come looking for them.
She became the first Aboriginal nurse in South Australia and eventually rose in bureaucratic circles to become a very respected person and she did so much work for Aboriginal people. She also worked in in a caring role in India. She went on to work for NGOs, and became head of the Aboriginal Development Corporation. Photo from The Guardian.
A paradox is that the missionary education for the stolen generation gave us many well educated and extremely literate part Aboriginal woman, and some men too. Many went on to be great spokespeople for their race. There is a very long list but most are no longer with us. It's about words.
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The things you learn from blogging, like in America mold is the spelling, whereas for us it is mould. Canada seems to have a bob each way with spelling. I wonder about the word moult. It's all about words.
My efforts to make my young relatives say lift instead of elevator is futile. They have learnt the word from American media. What's in a word?
I've agreed with myself to tolerate the common pronunciation of kilOMetre. For some reason it has been matched with the pronunciation of odometer. God Gough told me the correct pronunciation is KILOmetre and I am an oddity with my pronunciation of the word. I don't care. That is the way I have always said the word. Please don't eve say kays to my face.
What still sends me into an internal rage is orientated and disorientated. Why? What is wrong with oriented and disoriented? Interestingly I was watching an American YouTube and so pleased the speaker did not say orientated.
Some of you may think, what does it matter as long as you can understand what is being said, and that is a valid point, but there has to be a basic standard way of speaking, even if it changes over time.
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We say orientated and hate oriented.
ReplyDeleteReally Tasker? I must unfriend you then.
DeleteYour Doctor O'Donoghue seems to have done very well, given her inauspicious start in life. She must have been quite a special person.
ReplyDeleteI am an old fogey when it comes to the correct use of spelling, grammar and punctuation. My insistence on "getting it right" at work sparked a couple of heated debates amongst colleagues as I felt that a government department should at least get its spelling right when communicating with the public. Sadly, these days it has become worse. I cringe.
JayCee, to receive something from the government that has incorrect spelling or grammar would **ss me off big time. I have found our government communication fine, although it can be unclear to some.
DeleteUm, I was under the impression that disorientated is an antonym of orientated. You seem to be implying that somebody incorrectly used one word as a synonym for the other. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about?
ReplyDeleteThey are Kirk. My point is about adding unnecessary endings to the words oriented v orientated. I can't think of an occasion where the word orientated is needed when oriented is correct and is fine.
DeleteI heard about Dr Lowitja on the news and then read about her in the newspaper too. I would hope there are some following in her footsteps. As for language, I see a time in the future when all might speak a mangled version of all languages mixed with little thought as to spelling or pronunciation. Those old enough to remember the "good old days" will be horrified. I hope the twins learn correct spelling and grammar, they already love books.
ReplyDeleteRiver, I am pleased the twins love books. As my grandfather said, if you like reading you will never be bored. Clearly our language is changing quite rapidly, to a more American way of speaking and and spelling, as it is in England. America dominates world culture and I am just a dinosaur stuck in the past.
DeleteI just checked my English dictionary for "orientate" (to orient) and it has "orientation" - a turning towards the east or the west: position east and west. From this I gather that "orientated" and "disorientated" are correct.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the example River, and orientation is ok with me. The orientation of something is fine. But I can't see the connection between orientation and oriented/orientated.
DeleteIn my younger days, only English teachers get very obsessed with these details. If I want to get a B+, I better "listen" to whatever they tell us to do. Funnily, I see most other Aussies do not follow these rules at all.
ReplyDeleteRoentare, it is one thing to learn formal English but as I am sure you discovered, that won't be how it is used by everyone in any English speaking country. I think overseas, either American English or English English is taught. Neither really apply to Australian English.
DeleteWhen you hear about teachers failing basic english and numeracy tests AFTER they have completed their degrees it is no wonder our system is in crisis.
ReplyDeleteMerlot, I suggest they need to be competent with both before any teacher training happens. Sister is both a teacher and a part time exam marker. I know she does know proper English and I have postcards from her written in the 80s/90s that are word perfect, yet when she lodged Mother's death notice, it had a bad grammatical clanger. I was embarrassed to be named. I am surprised it wasn't corrected by the Hun.
DeleteAn amazing women she was Andrew.
ReplyDeleteThe children of several years back were taught to spell the words the way they sound, that was a mistake as no one corrected them to our way of spelling. Now those children/adults are teaching the children of today, so what hope have we got in having correct spelling!
i remember when our sons went to school, a private one at that there was a time in their primary school classes where by each child corrected another childs work in the class room - my husband went to the Principal and compained, something was done about it and he wasn't the only one to complain.
Margaret, education varies quite a bit in our different states. Victoria has gone back to the old school ways as the way things had changed did not work, and today's current young teachers would be victims of that. Good on your husband for speaking up.
DeleteLanguage is an ever changing phenomenon. it is good to keep up with changes. After being a teacher, I have come to the conclusion that the American spelling of words is fine it is much easier for kids to spell. Most of the words are not pronounced like they used to be in old English so why not spell them how they are pronounced now.
ReplyDeleteDiane, that is a good argument and why shouldn't mold be the spelling when that is how it is pronounced, although I might pronounce it slightly differently with a different vowel sound in the middle and a different inflection. I don't believe much in the teaching of spelling. Spelling is picked up by reading and remembering spellings of words. Colour could be spelt as coler, which would be the general pronunciation, so I am not sure that color is a more obvious spelling of the word than colour. Words, ever interesting.
DeleteCuller? Werds? Obvias? ha ha
DeleteI was horrified when I first heard about the 'lost generation' - unbelievably cruel and short-sighted.
ReplyDeleteI belong in the 'correct spelling and grammar' camp. I am pedantic. Spelling had to be standardised because of dialectical differences and apparently is still in the process of standardisation.
JB, I don't understand the need to remove part white children from their families. I think it may have continued into the 1970s. Yes, so cruel. Fancy having your kids taken away from you for no real reason.
DeleteI too like correct grammar and spelling, but we have to realise that what we think is correct, is changing. I noticed quite a bit of Americanisation when we were in England last year.
Imagine the hullabaloo if part brown children had been removed from their white families!
DeleteThe change in the language has accelerated with instantaneous nearly free global communication - including our blogs. I still don't understand why you call a cookie and biscuit.
ReplyDeleteTP, biscuit is what we grew up with, no doubt inherited from Britain. That's the word we know. However it is far more likely that young people use the two words interchangeably and even younger may only say cookie rather than bickie.
DeleteI hear you on all of this. Many don't understand when I moved to Canada I had to learn a whole other language. Seriously. My Hiberno-English was no match for the Canadian spelling, pronunciation and and grammar, much of it from USian television. And even the words. For instance washroom for toilet was new, chesterfields for sofas, pinafore was a jumper, jumper was a sweater and on and on and on.
ReplyDeleteI am still a fusspot on correct pronunciations. Don't get me started on grammar.
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Quite a challenge when thrown in the deep end, WWW. Washroom and bathroom are tolerable alternatives to toilet, but rest rooms and for public toilets, comfort stations? I didn't know pinafore can be a jumper. It makes 'put your pinny on before you start cooking' sound rather odd.
DeleteI find I get more and more confused with the spelling since spell-check seems to want to make everything American English and then I'm not sure if I have actually misspelled something.
ReplyDeleteExactly the same for me Pat. My spelling wasn't bad. Now I just end up in a confused state and doubting myself. If there is not a setting for Australian English, I choose English English, which mostly matches our spelling. But that single English flag inevitably means American English.
DeleteI've begun saying "lift" instead of elevator now. Probably from reading your blog. I now say "sunnies" instead of sunglasses.
ReplyDeleteThat's way cool Strayer. How else can Australia infect your speech?
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